[dns-operations] Browser Public suffixes list

Meir Kraushar meir at isoc.org.il
Sat Aug 27 09:56:30 UTC 2022

Hi Jothan
Thank you for the detailed response.

1) After approval and implementation of  delegation from the root , I did
not notice any information sent from IANA about PSL.
We were referred to it only much later.
2) The need to maintain a list dedicated to browser issues is out of our
scope. I'm sure there are good reasons to have it, like you said, there is
gap between the worlds. The problems in this gap are these:
- Even after you find your way and manage to update the list,  it takes
VERY long time before browsers will actually adopt it. 6 months is the
default with chromium (unless you want to expedite the process which
requires downloading the source and re compile it with the changes).
So this has to be very clear from the beginning.  Even after all procedures
with ICANN & IANA are done there is a second stage, that can take just as
- Having said that,  we did mange to expedite the process, with the help of
good people in both Mozilla and chromium projects. But the biggest enigma ,
something we still haven't sorted out, is how to reach Apple Safari.
Zero,  none information . Just a big enigma which is very frustrating.
3)Thanks for the info about UASG I will certainly check it out

On Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 06:28 Jothan Frakes <jothan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Meir-
> I have had some dialog with your CEO on this related to the introduction
> of this TLD and its subdomains and the PSL PR expediting for
> https://github.com/publicsuffix/list/pull/1595.  I volunteer time to
> maintain the PSL and I did bump the ישראל, אקדמיה.ישראל, ישוב.ישראל ,
> צהל.ישראל , ממשל.ישראל namespaces to the front of the queue and invested
> time to get that pushed and merged.
> He explained the delay in launch that the ISOC had to do related to this,
> which is really regrettable.
> I spend a tremendous amount of time attempting to spread the word about
> the PSL to ccTLDs and gTLDs to help with awareness, at TechDay during ICANN
> meetings, the Registry Operators Workshop (ROW), regional ccTLD
> associations and a variety of conferences so that ccTLD administrators are
> aware of it.
> Crucially, around 2019 I spent a good amount of time with Paul Hoffman
> (who you see here in thread) from the ICANN Office of the CTO (OCTO) in
> authoring a document that the IANA would furnish to ccTLDs/gTLDs upon their
> delegation to the root.
> This was another proactive effort to spread information about the PSL and
> the reach it has in bridging the divide, and ccTLDs were to receive this so
> that they were informed proactively about the Public Suffix List.
> Quick question for you. *Was the PSL information provided to you by the
> IANA at delegation last year*?  It was a lot of proactive effort and time
> investment on our parts and it could have prevented the current timing
> matter being faced.
> The PSL is a catalog.  Full stop.  We have zero ability to direct how it
> is used, what changes someone may make (add/remove entries), frequency of
> updates or product roadmaps.  In the case of IOS/MACOS, Safari updates are
> typically included with general OS updates so they are less frequent.
> The Universal Acceptance direction that you're being steered to is
> something that really does not like to give any attention or credence to
> the reach of the PSL and what it does to reduce the aggravation you are
> experiencing, but there might be some connections to browser contacts that
> could be helpful.  And you're likely to meet others that experience some of
> the challenges that are unknown unknowns in navigating IDN interoperability.
> Candidly, there is a massive chasm between the world of software and
> solution developers and the world of ICANN, and the PSL is a rope bridge
> between them that has been in place.  Devs have zero tolerance for
> bureaucracy and candidly there is not a place that exists within the ICANN
> multistakeholder model that has any amount of benefits to offset the
> friction that participation would represent (costs, time, obligations, etc).
> Browsers (etc users of PSL) voluntarily include it, give or take, at their
> pace.  Can't force anything on them, and straying from our status quo has
> some of them talking about splintering off their own.  So imagine having to
> hunt the resource down being multiplied by the number of browsers, each
> with their own process, and you might see how this has been left in its
> current state.
> -Jothan
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 6:44 PM Hugo Salgado <hsalgado at nic.cl> wrote:
>> Hi Meir. It might also be good to write to the uasg discussion list (
>> https://uasg.tech/). I don't know if they'll have contacts with apple,
>> but this topic fits right in with their "universal acceptance" goal.  I
>> remember a similar case a few years ago, and I'm sure they'll be interested
>> in hearing about your case and pushing for a coordinated solution in the
>> future, within icann.
>> Regards,
>> Hugo
>> On August 26, 2022 8:11:50 PM GMT-04:00, Meir Kraushar via dns-operations
>> <dns-operations at dns-oarc.net> wrote:
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