[as112-ops] List of all the zones AS112 should be authoritative for?

[Kenneth Finnegan]

On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 4:21 PM Joe Abley <jabley at hopcount.ca> wrote:
> For HOME.ARPA, RFC 8375 section 7 calmly ignored all the work we did in 7534 and 7535 and even invented a new term "blackhole servers" without mentioning AS112 at all. It's not my favourite.

Interesting. To be fair, there's very little I like about RFC8375, but
that's besides the point.

I mainly wanted to make sure that their use of the passive voice in
that spec to delegate home.arpa. to AS112 is as strange as it seems,
and there isn't a draft of an update to RFC7534 in the works that we
should be aware of.

On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 4:34 PM Matthew Pounsett <matt at dns-oarc.net> wrote:
> The as112.net web page isn’t trying to be exhaustive, but perhaps it could be updated to try to be that.  Pretending to be exhaustive would require that someone be on top of every new delegation, and I’m not sure how to guarantee that we do that.

I'd argue that making as112.net the exhaustive list of delegations is
the easy part. It's getting all the running nodes out there to update
their configs to handle the new delegations that's the hard part, so
if trying to keep track of the list of delegations in one place is
hard to guarantee, I'd argue the answer is that adding new delegations
isn't an option and we want to get the DNAME system qualified, but to
answer my own question, it sounds like my AS112 node should be RFC7534
compliant, and no one will fault me for that.

If I didn't think that changing home. to home.arpa. was in itself
pretty flawed from a user experience perspective, I'd suggest someone
investigate the viability of the arpa delegation being a DNAME and
still acheiving the desired lack of a DS record and publish an updated
RFC with actual actionable content in section 7 instead of just
pointing out there's a problem that still needs to be solved. Homenet
seems like a pretty reasonable thing to try out RFC7535 on from a
"minimal blast radius" perspective.
--
Kenneth Finnegan
Technical Director, FCIX

On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 4:21 PM Joe Abley <jabley at hopcount.ca> wrote:
>
> On 17 Apr 2019, at 19:04, Matthew Pounsett <matt at dns-oarc.net> wrote:
>
> I believe RFC 7534 §2.2 [0]  (listed on that page) is the most up-to-date document on what you need to set up in order to support an AS112 node.   As far as I’m aware the only delegation to AS112 newer than that is the home.arpa delegation (RFC8375 [1]).   The reason home.arpa is listed specially on the ops page, and empty.as112.arpa isn’t, is that ‘empty’ is in the AS112 RFCs and home.arpa is off on its own in the Homenet document, which was published more recently.
>
>
> The problem we were trying to solve in RFC 7535 was that there was no good way to add zones to AS112 servers, and adding delegations to them in the blind was a recipe for lame delegations which seemed messy. Although many AS112 server operators talk to each other here and are well-coordinated, there is no way to ensure that this is universally true and it's a difficult thing to measure in practice.
>
> For HOME.ARPA, RFC 8375 section 7 calmly ignored all the work we did in 7534 and 7535 and even invented a new term "blackhole servers" without mentioning AS112 at all. It's not my favourite.
>
> It’s likely the One True Authority on what might be coming your way is probably the Locally Served Zones registry [2] at the IANA.  Although, at the moment I’m not able to put my hands on any piece of documentation that says that explicitly.  Perhaps someone can point out why I’m wrong about that, or suggest that I add that document to the as112.net home page.
>
>
> The one true authority as far as I'm concerned for delegation to the AS112 servers is RFC 7534.
>
> However, anybody can redirect any zone they like in the namespace following the scheme described in 7535. That was pretty much the point of it.
>
>
> Joe
>
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