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<p>On 21/11/2017 03:16, Damian Menscher wrote:</p>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 4:28 AM, Noel Butler <span><<a href="mailto:noel.butler@ausics.net" rel="noreferrer">noel.butler@ausics.net</a>></span> wrote:<br />
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<p>On 20/11/2017 22:08, Damian Menscher wrote:</p>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 3:47 AM, Florian Weimer <span><<a href="mailto:fweimer@redhat.com" rel="noreferrer">fweimer@redhat.com</a>></span> wrote:<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;"><span class="m_-5368978718576394047gmail-"><span class="m_-5368978718576394047gmail-">On 11/18/2017 09:11 AM, Damian Menscher wrote:<br /></span></span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">Your argument that you don't trust the ISPs between you and<br /> Google/OpenDNS/Quad9, and therefore run your own local recursive resolver,<br /> confuses me. After all, your local recursive needs to query third-party<br /> authoritative servers anyway.<br /><br /> To convince yourself, answer these two questions:<br /> - How many ISPs are between you and 8.8.8.8? I'm on Comcast, and they<br /> have direct peering with Google, so the number is zero.</blockquote>
8.8.8.8 is increasingly seen as an anycast service address for DNS unrelated to Google, similar to how you download the SSH keys for root login from 169.254.169.254 or instance-data. I expect that many ISPs route 8.8.8.8 to their own servers.</blockquote>
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<div>Unlike 169.254/16 which is defined by RFC to be link-local, <a href="http://8.8.8.0/24" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">8.8.8.0/24</a> has been allocated to Google.</div>
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<div>If you identify instances of BGP hijacking please report either privately to the victim (Google in your example) or publicly to the nanog mailing list, so corrective action can be taken.</div>
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<div>ISP's I've been with in times gone by have often "hijacked" open DNS resolvers, to ensure their users get best experience by using their own DNS servers. not a thing likes of google etc, can do about it. for instance, with the new laws in Australia, you'll find plenty localising googles and opendns's resolvers ip's to enforce and satisfy court directions from copyright orders</div>
<div>also allows them to use RPZ's to stop their users from going to phishing sites and so on, most users wouldnt know the difference, nor care.</div>
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<div>Actually the users *do* care, which is why they explicitly changed their settings from the ISP default to 8.8.8.8.</div>
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<div>Damian</div>
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<p>Actually, I think you'll find thats more along the lines of INSERT_DEVICENAME they've bought that may have them preset because device manufacturers dont like users customising settings. Even my 12 moth old Samsung phone doesnt let me change the DNS servers on the 4G side of things, which means I have to tolerate the settings they push. (I know I can root the device and change it but thats beside the point since its not a general user setting, unlike wifi)</p>
<div>Of the couple that ever did ask why we localised 8.8.8.8 and the "4" one as well, I asked them to give me a reason why they'd want to use an external DNS server, that would ultimately respond slower than one we provide that was 10-30ms away, and at least at that time, provided no nasty sites protection, what does that other DNS server do that ours didn't, the silence was so deafening, until one said "it seemed cool to use 8.8.8.8" All I could do was just laugh.</div>
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<div>Maybe I'm old school, but I dont see a need for any open public resolvers, those that run them, dont do it out the kindness of their heart, there is always a commercial reason.</div>
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<div>-- <br />
<p>Kind Regards,</p>
<p>Noel Butler</p>
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